Curse

Artinnia · Aug 24, 2008, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Yeah... I'd LOVE to see you micro 7 heroes at once... I can barely micro 2 and myself. Besides, a lot of coding and time would have to go into this.. time they could use to get the HoM update out with.

/notsigned

Sorry, but try finding even one other person to play with, then you'll have a full party of two people and six heroes.

Dismiss the Cynic · Aug 24, 2008, 08:36 PM // 20:36

/notsigned
Heros are the cancer that's killing pve!

AncientLord · Aug 24, 2008, 08:49 PM // 20:49

I agree, i will not have to watch noobs in my party

Hyper Cutter · Aug 24, 2008, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dismiss the Cynic

Heros are the cancer that's killing pve!

/facepalm.

Also, /signed. I don't see why people don't want it, or more accurately why they don't want to let other people use it...

Lady Raenef · Aug 24, 2008, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

I tried to help a player in Gate of Pain yesterday and was told to f*** off when I explained the problems with his build, so kindly STFU about helping people.

That's because you don't help pugs. You help friends and guildies who won't tell you to "f*** off." The game was designed to be a MMORPG, which means, whether you like it or not, you're going to be with people. And Anet forces you with people.

The day Anet makes it so rank 15 Hero requires 15 fame, they will also make it so seven heroes are allowed in a party and then you'll never see anyone in an outpost, ever, again. People will pop in, grab their heroes, and go. This makes it harder for people who only have two or three heroes and are NICE enough to not say "f*** off" when you fail. He/she just 'lols' about it and perhaps will ask for you to try again with them if you have the time. There are considerate people. Perhaps you just have a magnet that grabs the 81% of the players who are complete and total jackasses.

/notsigned, still. I'd rather heroes be removed from the game completely. If a team of eight fails to conquer an area, then you obviously aren't ready for it. You as a player, saying that the seven other party members completely failed the objection is selfish and conceited. IF you want to prove to me you're better, than accomplish something by yourself. No heroes. That will tell me that you're so good, you can beat Shiro all by yourself. Perma-Sin doesn't impress people, by the way.

So, in conclusion. Seven heroes is as stupid as the zaishen title, itself. While spearing people feels good, getting speared doesn't. Not to mention, it's another "I has moniez, let mah buy teh titel" on the list. Ridiculous. Anyway, straying off. Seven heroes. Bad.

Here's another way to put it. If your team fails because your pug fails, you fail as a player because you let your team die even with that fail player. It's a team effort, not a sole based game. If a team loses, I blame the team. One person can't take the complete blame in all situations when everything could have been prevented. Now, I said not in all situations, there are some, but so few. Only if they're a complete necessary vital tool to the party, such as the healer. They're always important and always take the blame. That's why, if people complain, I charge them 5k to get anymore heals from me.

Puzur · Aug 24, 2008, 09:02 PM // 21:02

I saluted heroes at start, thinking of them as a compliment to playing with others. It was really fun not to be competing with all the other groups over the few monks that were available in an outpost. Now I more or less hate heroes since noone (not many at least) bothers to play with real ppl anymore and that is what I found both most entertaining and challenging. If there will be possible to have 7 heroes it will be almost impossible to find anyone to play with. Besides why play a online game if u are not gonna play with ppl?

Zahr Dalsk · Aug 24, 2008, 10:48 PM // 22:48

I'd like to address the brainless ones amongst the opposition:

THIS GAME WAS DESIGNED TO SUPPORT SINGLEPLAYER AND IT IS AN ACCEPTED WAY OF PLAYING GUILD WARS.

Get that through your heads and remember it. Look at the back of your Prophecies box and it specifically says we can play with human friends or AI. Don't pull the "this is multiplayer" card because that card is wrong.

Why did I play this online game? Because it looked like a fun singleplayer game with PvP and optional group PvE.

Also - heroes killing multiplayer? If there were no heroes, I and the other H/H players would simply leave rather than play with unpleasant idiots who can't spell and can't play and can't act mature to save their lives.

Thank you.

GoodApollo1234 · Aug 25, 2008, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

They changed Ursan even if morons like Apollo of Dilan would rather write /notsigned than try to make the game better.

At least allow us to change the fbad bars from henches.

I didn't say it was a bad idea. I just seriously doubt Anet's ever going to do it. How is Ursan related to this?

I see a lot of people are ranting about how GW is supposed to support players who prefer to play solo. It already does. Yeah, henchmen suck, but PvE's still doable. Personally, I ONLY play PvE, and I never really have any major problems using henchmen. If you do.... did you ever stop to think that maybe you just kinda suck? I don't mean to offend anyone, but if you ask me, the last thing they should be doing is making PvE easier.

So hear me now. I will not /sign OR /notsign your stupid suggestion (which has been made over 9000 times), because I simply don't think it's needed. Would I be completely against it? No, of course not.

Zahr Dalsk · Aug 25, 2008, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodApollo1234

I didn't say it was a bad idea. I just seriously doubt Anet's ever going to do it. How is Ursan related to this?

I see a lot of people are ranting about how GW is supposed to support players who prefer to play solo. It already does. Yeah, henchmen suck, but PvE's still doable. Personally, I ONLY play PvE, and I never really have any major problems using henchmen. If you do.... did you ever stop to think that maybe you just kinda suck? I don't mean to offend anyone, but if you ask me, the last thing they should be doing is making PvE easier.

So hear me now. I will not /sign OR /notsign your stupid suggestion (which has been made over 9000 times), because I simply don't think it's needed. Would I be completely against it? No, of course not.

I'm pretty sure elite areas don't allow henchmen, unless I'm forgetting something.

pamelf · Aug 25, 2008, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

If you don't want to play with people, then play a single player game.

This is my least favourite argument that people use against 7 heroes. This game has been advertised as being able to be played solo since the very beginning. Yes it's an MMO, but the original prophecies clearly states that this game can be played alone OR in a team, not exclusively in a team.

This is not a valid counter point due to the fact that guild wars was never advertised to be a team only game.

Bryant Again · Aug 25, 2008, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by pamelf

Yes it's an MMO, but the original prophecies clearly states that this game can be played alone OR in a team, not exclusively in a team.

Prophecies box didn't mention a single thing about heroes, though : \ Playing devil's advocate sucks.

As is, I don't see 7 heroes as a "need" but more of a "want". I don't "need" 7 heroes since I can explore and complete the whole game by myself save for the exceptions of a few elite areas (which can be solved by getting a friend to join then leave). I'd only "want" the addition of four more heroes just to be able to call my team "mine".

And noooes thou art banned, Pam! D_:

GoodApollo1234 · Aug 25, 2008, 01:33 AM // 01:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

I'm pretty sure elite areas don't allow henchmen, unless I'm forgetting something.

No, you're right. Elite areas like FoW, UW, and DoA don't allow henchmen, but that kinda makes sense if you think about it. At least to me it does.

Those are ELITE areas, meaning that they're meant for experienced players. We all know that complete morons can find their way there and ruin PUGs, but one of the most important traits of an "elite" player, especially in an MMO is the ability to form a balanced group, and cooperate well with said group, no matter how many n00bs they have to dig through to find good players.

But thanks to the advent of heroes, you don't even have to form a full group. All you need is ONE friend who:
A) is a decent player (i.e.- knows his/her build well, won't flake out on you, etc.).
B) has decent heroes.
C) you can get along with well enough to finish the mission.

And if you're unable to do that.... I don't know what to tell ya, to be honest. Maybe you really WOULD be better off playing a single-player game.

Sure, having a full group of heroes would solve this problem, but in the end, it would cause more problems which have already been explained.

So, in my opinion, the benefits DO NOT outweigh the setbacks.

Bryant Again · Aug 25, 2008, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodApollo1234

Those are ELITE areas, meaning that they're meant for experienced players. We all know that complete morons can find their way there and ruin PUGs, but one of the most important traits of an "elite" player, especially in an MMO is the ability to form a balanced group, and cooperate well with said group, no matter how many n00bs they have to dig through to find good players.

Completing a hard area without other players is not an easy task. Not only do you have to tailor builds specifically for hero AI (which causes enough problems on its own), you are limiting yourself to three PvE skills - meaning, a VERY huge setback.

"Elite" only means that the area will be difficult. I don't see why a player who's very capable of doing it by himself shouldn't be allowed to do so.

Tyla · Aug 25, 2008, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

If you don't want to play with people, then play a single player game.

If you're so heavily based on that stance, please create a thread petitioning the removal of all heroes.

However, I do agree that elite areas shouldn't allow the usage of heroes.

Oh, and please use search.

Zahr Dalsk · Aug 25, 2008, 01:46 AM // 01:46

I hope this actual photographic evidence will end the stupid "this is not a solo game" stuff.

Also note the partially obscured "skillful henchmen."

ArenaNet, there's no nice way to say this. The henchmen have builds that suck; they aren't skillful.

And moreover they aren't available in elite areas.

I also wonder, will GW2 have AI, or would ArenaNet prefer to avoid the casual gamers? (You know, the people who often play with AI because they may have real-life stuff to attend to and PUGs get angry about that, or those of us who tend to play Guild Wars in very short periods of time between long periods of time doing something else.)

Bryant Again · Aug 25, 2008, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

Also note the partially obscured "skillful henchmen."

Sadly, it isn't stated how "skillful" they would be, not to mention the word in itself is largely subjective.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

ArenaNet, there's no nice way to say this. The henchmen have builds that suck; they aren't skillful.

So why not ask for better henchmen instead of more heroes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

I also wonder, will GW2 have AI, or would ArenaNet prefer to avoid the casual gamers? (You know, the people who often play with AI because they may have real-life stuff to attend to and PUGs get angry about that, or those of us who tend to play Guild Wars in very short periods of time between long periods of time doing something else.)

GW2 is going to be "majorly soloable". From what we've read in interviews and from the FAQ, GW2 sounds a lot like a mix between D2 and WoW at the moment. It's stated that you may have an AI-controlled companion if you wish (much like D2's available henchmen) and you will be "buffed accordingly" if you choose to go completely solo. But raids will be large and for players only.

So in a way, yes and no. Yes, they're going to remove the option to fill your party with AI players, but they're also going to remove the need to fill those slots in the first place.

draxynnic · Aug 25, 2008, 05:44 AM // 05:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodApollo1234

No, you're right. Elite areas like FoW, UW, and DoA don't allow henchmen, but that kinda makes sense if you think about it. At least to me it does.

Those are ELITE areas, meaning that they're meant for experienced players. We all know that complete morons can find their way there and ruin PUGs, but one of the most important traits of an "elite" player, especially in an MMO is the ability to form a balanced group, and cooperate well with said group, no matter how many n00bs they have to dig through to find good players.

But thanks to the advent of heroes, you don't even have to form a full group. All you need is ONE friend who:
A) is a decent player (i.e.- knows his/her build well, won't flake out on you, etc.).
B) has decent heroes.
C) you can get along with well enough to finish the mission.

And if you're unable to do that.... I don't know what to tell ya, to be honest. Maybe you really WOULD be better off playing a single-player game.

Sure, having a full group of heroes would solve this problem, but in the end, it would cause more problems which have already been explained.

So, in my opinion, the benefits DO NOT outweigh the setbacks.

And D) Available and willing to play the elite area at the same time you are. Not necessarily a trivial concern when you're in, say, an Australian timezone.

As I've stated in another thread like this one: I'm cautious about supporting 7-hero groups, but it would be nice to be able to put together an AI team that can go into places like the Underworld. Updating henchmen skills would also help - especially those from Prophecies, and as noted before, especially especially Aidan and Reyna, who basically fulfill no purpose beyond being an additional body dishing out mediocre damage.

I'd also like to see Odurra getting an elite. Especially since she has so much personality.

Zahr Dalsk · Aug 25, 2008, 08:41 AM // 08:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Sadly, it isn't stated how "skillful" they would be, not to mention the word in itself is largely subjective.

Skillful implies having some degree of competence at a given task, in this case combat, and as henchmen are certainly incompetent, it's fairly safe to say they aren't skillful, unfortunately.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

So why not ask for better henchmen instead of more heroes?

Heroes offer greater flexibility, don't have annoying quotes, and offer more freedom of build choice, not to mention they can be adapted to each new patch and area. Their AI is also better, and they can enter Elite Missions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

But raids will be large and for players only.

This is the thing that's been worrying me and the main reason I'll be searching for a different game when GW dies. Right now 40k Online and BioWare's MMO seem like prominent candidates; both are virtually guaranteed a more enjoyable community than Guild Wars and BioWare's MMO has developers who actually care about what the players want.

The play with a friend argument is nice except that out of my group of players, I am the only one who still plays, the rest leaving after getting tired of hostile PUGs and developers that don't care about them (those were the main reasons, there was also boredom).

Lady Raenef · Aug 25, 2008, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

I hope this actual photographic evidence will end the stupid "this is not a solo game" stuff.

[large image]

That's also the Prophecies box. That quote has been made invalid ever since the flood of intelligent players invaded the space of ArenaNet. If you want to understand why that quote is unfavorable evidence in your part, look at the other side of the box. Take a look at the warrior's build and what his current action is. ArenaNet didn't think when they made the box. If you want to obscure a particular line out of a quote, you may as well obscure the rest because it's not a quote unless you quote the entire phrase.

Also, since when do people pay attention to manuals and boxes. Every time I refer to the manual as proof, it's backfired. Ergo, your argument is a weak one as it refers to a box released over three years ago. Much has changed which means, times have changed, which means, seven heroes is overkill.

You're fretting over something completely insignificant. If you seriously wish to play this game solo, then they may as well make it so the game data is saved to your computer and you're disconnected from the internet completely whilst playing the game. That way, you never have to deal with any of us ever again and you can enjoy all the experience of Guild Wars being completely alone. After you've farmed the Domain of Anguish for six months and get all those shiny tormented weapons, you can express your joy to all your henchmen buddies, since this game was designed for those who were meant to be stricken from social parties.

There's no awards nor talk of solo play. The game was designed to play with others. If you don't like that, play Oblivion.

Tyla · Aug 25, 2008, 10:00 AM // 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Raenef

snip.

You can solo most of WoW too, unless I'm wrong. That's an online MMO.
You can solo most of Runescape.
You can solo most of Diablo II. (Maybe not an MMO, but Guild Wars isn't in a persistant world either)

Just because it's an MMO, or an online game doesn't mean you have to play with other people.